Myrulet.com

Hello, i m reading here since a few weeks and decided now to post my first thread here.

First thing: SRY 4 MY ENGLISH, i m german ant know neglish only from school, but i ll try my best.

@ topic:

I m new to roulette, but from beginning, i m convices only of a ballistic solution of it. All my thoughts in this thread are pure theoretical.

As far as i know, it s MOST IMPORTANT, to bring the speed of the wheel in relation to the speed of the ball, to get results. (if that happens with pattern, crosses, whatever) This is now all my theorie, no practical gaming/experience including.

Pierre Basieux says, the speed of the wheel is a constant. (only getting few few slowlier by each revolution) So i dedicate this as my first constant.

As far as i know, is the main problem to find a "system" (some VB player may solved this on their individual way) get knowing about the time HOW LONG the Ball still need to fall off/hit a diamond. Better say, where in the coup i am at everey time and know where and when the ball will hit diamond/fall down.
As far as i ve read, some ppl try to locate one of the last 5-6 revoultions (for example to locate always the 5th last revoultion) and from there on to predict.

The problem is, that obviuosly the last 6-7 rounds in a Coup ARE NOT ALWAYS the same time til hit/drop, so that they are not 100 % a constant. (Sure the speed where the looses contact to the "wall" is same)
Reason for this might be ball spin caused by dealer, sweat, dust, air pressure and so on.

but i think u have to to the best from this, not seeing the last 7 rev. as a constant, but as a regularity. (not alwas, but sometimes)

My logic says, that u CAN T get a result C (prediction of how long ball will role) if A (speed of wheel) is a constante und B (speed of ball in the last 6-7 rev.) is always a variable!!
U only can get a C if A is a constante and B at LEAST A REGULARITY!

WITHOUT constante/regularity for "speed of ball in last rounds" NO VB!!

Here a picture:

Summary:

Accept acoustic signtaure, i cant imagine, that VB is possible if we would accept that the last rev. are ALWAYS different.
As I said, some pllz try do locate last rev. of a coup, but doing this, they also have to accept that the last rev. are a constante/regularity.
So those ppl say, that in the last rev. the ball always does a CERTAIN way til drop/hit. So my thing is, that on the other side, also a CERTAIN way from the beginning (lets say averaye rev. is 20), for example always after exact 14 rev. i "hope" to be alrdy in the last 5-6 ball rev., where i then start to take measure of ball speed related to wheel speed.

So, this is my first try to walk at VB, dont kill me plz^^

greetings

calister junger Kämpfer, Du bist hier nicht alleine.

Gruss Elhombre

kenne dich glaub ich von threads aus dem dc forum.

ja, ist schwierig, als absoluter neuling (vor allem da im dc und paroli forum, ja die meisten die meinen ahnung zu haben in ihrer "forsdchung" weiter sind als ich), deswegen weich ich auch auf englische foren aus, in der hoffnung weitere stücke des puzzles zusammen zu bekommen

Lg Calister

Nein, wie heisst Du denn bei paroli ?

Elhombre

In some situations the wheel speed can be classified as a constant, but of course it is not a constant and it makes significant changes. However it can be readjusted.




That's the issue I highlighted few years ago. For example on a tilted wheel 6 rotations to the end of spin the ball may travel 9 sec and next time it may be 10s. One second difference because of tilt since it groups wider range of ball speeds within one rotation to hit at same diamond. On a reasonable rotor speed that's not much and significant part of it is gained back when the ball hits the diamond since it doesn't hit it at same level.




Nobody will kill you here for asking same questions i did some time ago  .

We do not say last 6 rev are the same but we say they are similar. In usual if you guess it right deviation which the ball takes to complete is about 0.5 sec.

Your example about spin of 20 revs is not same, since you do not know if it is 20 revs. If you can guess is it 20 or 21 you probably would get same results since 21 rotation doesn't last long so the rotor for that time doesn't move much.  Then do not count 14 rotations down since you'll end up with one rotation difference but where it is longer therefore and the error will be larger.
We can say VB's advantage is knowing the ball drop point, because of tilt on the wheel and estimating moment during the spin where the ball will have similar remaining time until it drops.

I am sry, either i missunderstand ur post cause of my english knowledge ur u do mine: What i ment in my example is exactly "my thought" of "i dont know if 20 or 21 rev. will be in the end"
If I have 4 coups observed: 20,20,22,22 rev. At the 5th Coup i take for my measure 21 rev. 21 minus 6 or 7. (Lets say 14 rev. is now my measure point)
5th Coup: Ball speed related to Wheel speed after 14 rev.: -15 pockets.
6th Coup: Ball speed relatet to (same) wheel speed after 14 rev.: -8 pockets.
7th coup: ball speed related to (same) wheel spped after 14 rev.  -8 pockets.
8th coup: ball speed related to (same) wheel speed after 14 rev. + 5 pockets.

So, i think now: 6 and 7 have EXACTLY SAME speed at EXACTLY same point, SO they will have the same amount of rev.and hit on the same diamond has to come in MOST cases at the same angel. (So for example 6 and 7 would have now 21 rev.)

At the SAME POINT, in 5th coup the ball is slower (7 pockets slower than in 6 and 7), so it has to be LESS than 21 rev. (so hit another diamond or hit same as in 6th and 7th in ANOTHER angle)

ALso at the SAME measure point, in 8th coup, the ball moves faster, so there will be more then exact 21 rev.!

Hope u understand what i want to say, but in my head it seems logical =)

Rotor speed is not constant enough for that.
7 pockets difference may be created by ball or by rotor and it is not proportional.
If the rotor is faster by 7 pockets within that observed time, the rotor to the end of spin can make additional 20-30 pockets, but you may think it is the ball that moves slower which will make less rotations and instead adding you may deduct 10-20 pockets.
Evolution of roulettes advantage play

@ Calister

You can try out VB2 - its for free and i read and speak to does who use it - they have only good things to say about it.
Personaly i don't use the rotor when i estimate the ball.

The issue is not to estimate or key the momentum being early or late 14 seounds to end.
The issue many have is how to adjust with different rotor speeds.

Personaly i come to my own solution witch i call The Flexibility Cross witch pin point the strike point and scatter peaks and you adjust your visual read or observation point - i speak to some other witch also find there own solutions.

I assume first you learn the wheel in split secound.
Secound you learn how to estimate.
Third you learn how to adjust observation point.
Then you learn witch focus pin to use depending on degree of tilt ( as 1 pin game is history - if not very lucky ) ...

Classical ways are very effective and still valid.
If you want to know the spindevelopment you have to take lap/split times.

There is other public known ways you can use then VB2 - as deceleration if you have some dvd spins or practice for real or test some on youtube for free.
Using deceleration you can observe black numbers with your reference point and see how the gap gets larger - when you get a distinct gap/pattern/deceleration you count from main focus pin how many turnarounds you are from end.
As this is rotor/ball combination you have to work out a clocking pattern - how to adjust with different rotor speeds and change obervation point.
Then degree of tilt would tell if you are 0.00 0.25 0.50 0.75 to end.

lucky...... IMHO Calister is looking for a VB System that is for tilted and levelled wheels.
maybe its possible to use VB2 for both by some kind of adjusting ? Me too, lol




What do you mean with degree of tilt, the Casino where I go have Cammegh's  with 2 DD's  one at 10 and the other at 2 o'clock,
do you mean the whole degree from 10 to 2 o'clock about 9.2 pockets not so much.



E.H.

Degree of tilt is if you have 1 2 or 3 pin game and if he would use deceleration hes reference point would be the main focus pin.

Ho,ho lucky, I know the pictures and now I understand. :-*

Do you have experiandes that they work ?

regards E.H.

Is just your average illustration.

Should also mention i write wrong above or typing error when i state 14 secounds to end - i mean 14 vibrations to end using 0.8 witch is 11.2 to end.

So, do i understand right: a 3 pin game is a table, where i have 3 similar DDs?

The bias/tilt can be any - above is just illustration witch one to use as main focus pin or reference point - but it depends on situation.

If there are two dd's on a wheel, for instance at 2 and at 10. A good thing would be to track scatter from these two deflectors. If the 2 gets hit solid then the 10 might only be clipped and vica versa, causing different scatter patterns. Look for overlapping scatter patterns from these two deflectors. With VB2, as Forester has explained, you could use any deflector for calculation, then adjust for the overlapping scatter. For instance. CW, I might use 10 O'Clock for my ref. pin. Average scatter might be 18 pockets because it clips the top of the deflector. If I used the 2 O'clock deflector, I might get 9 pockets scatter on average. So effectively I could play only crossover from 10 O'clock or 90 degrees from 2. Just a simple example.

Currently I am playing a 2 pin wheel. The thing is that it is opposite deflectors and that CW the one hits whereas CCW the other hits. Scatter about the same on both - 3-7 pockets. So I use different deflectors for each direction.

Cheers
Toxic